The Dodge Challenger Message Board

dave-r wrote:That has cleaned off better than I would have thought though Eddie. You must have put a lot of "elbow grease" into that.

Thanks for the reply Dave. YES! LOL, I did just that, lots and lots of both elbow grease and rags! The weird part is the stuff removed better with gasoline then mineral spirits! They both cost the same anymore!

Here is a pic of my last parts aquisition, at least till I find another part time job.

Thanks to Dave for the crank bushing tip, I'm gonna install that in the Crankshaft soon as well, plus the valley holddowns are pretty cool, and the ARP 3/8 drive socket headed Damper Bolt is nice to have once the engine is completed and needs to be turned over with a standard 3/8 drive socket wrench instead of a huge breaker bar. Not shown is the billet rear seal retainer from Manicini Racing.

yes it does take a while to accumulate all the parts required for a full engine build doesnt it my pile is growing slowly to
cheers ian

ianandjess wrote:yes it does take a while to accumulate all the parts required for a full engine build doesnt it my pile is growing slowly to
cheers ian

I even speak to Brandon's wife Natalie on occasion!lol

Done stripping the old paint. Whew, in a couple of days I am going to attempt to paint this thing with this stuff. Anyone ever use it before? I've used the regular product on suspension conponents with great success on my truck, it's bulletproof!

#1

#2

#3

#4

looks great in the pics eddie are you happy with it i havent decided on a colour for mine yet i have been thinking on black as my car will be a green & black colour scheme & a green engine block (lets just not go there) so it will either be black or hemi orange to make it look more original
cheers ian

Yes, I am Ian Thanks man! I got up this morn and looked at the block, it's beautiful! The paint flowed out very well and looks 100% dead on,(Street Hemi Orange), they dont carry Race Hemi Orange. It covered it completely with one coat too! It's very tough stuff, only Methlyn Chloride will remove it once applied. Green is cool. Also if you need better quality pics of the painted block let me know Ian, I can take a few with a darker background and perhaps show it more clearly. I am very pleased with this product.

I noticed a while back that my 4340 Crank didnt have a manual transmission pilot input shaft bushing installed so I called 440source and ordered one. I first cleaned the hole then smeared some anti sieze around the bushing itself and both ends are radiused so I placed it in the register and used a plastic driver from PowerHouse that I used to install the freeze plugs with. I also used a small 10pound sledge. It drove in square and true and is bottomed out.

You can see the bushing

Yeah! Just whack that thing in there Eddie.

I usually use a bit of wood and a 2lb hammer for those sort of jobs.

airfuelEddie wrote:You can see the bushing

That's funny, I just spent 2 hours with a friend removing that thing (installing a Tremec, the new pilot bearing is a trifle smaller in diameter, so the old one had to go...)

The bearing shell is tempered steel. Can't be welded. Had to drill a bunch of holes in it and break it into pieces.

Fragile little thing huh?

fbernard wrote:

airfuelEddie wrote:You can see the bushing

That's funny, I just spent 2 hours with a friend removing that thing (installing a Tremec, the new pilot bearing is a trifle smaller in diameter, so the old one had to go...)

The bearing shell is tempered steel. Can't be welded. Had to drill a bunch of holes in it and break it into pieces.

Man Fabian, that was a pretty tough job eh? I would have been worried about damaging the crank! I hope you finally removed it. BTW, why would they use tempered Steel? Is this better than 'oillite' or the bronze alloy type that I slammed in this thing? Also should I smear a bit of High Temp. Motul Racing or Amsoil/Redline grease in there? Thanks for the tip Dave your advice worked like a charm. ( I used plastic instead of wood cause the only wood I had at that time was the small amount hangin between me legs)

Yes them splinters get everywhere.

airfuelEddie wrote:

fbernard wrote:

airfuelEddie wrote:You can see the bushing

That's funny, I just spent 2 hours with a friend removing that thing (installing a Tremec, the new pilot bearing is a trifle smaller in diameter, so the old one had to go...)

The bearing shell is tempered steel. Can't be welded. Had to drill a bunch of holes in it and break it into pieces.

Man Fabian, that was a pretty tough job eh? I would have been worried about damaging the crank!

I overdrilled a couple holes one millimeter but that's no problem.
The new bearing (a modified Ford part, I suppose) has a steel shell too, and a second brass shell around the first.

That, and the terrible bellhousing alignment I have right now (SFI bell, with a steel motor plate behind the flywheel, means the dowel pins
do not protrude past the plate) make me think I'm going to ride shotgun to Santa Pod again.

dave-r wrote:Yes them splinters get everywhere.

Yes they do! Here are the piston&rod assemblies. One particular direction per Keith Black was to install the Spiral Lox with the wired gap pointing down towards the crankcase/oil pan. Another was the adamant use of Torco assembly lube on the wrist pins. Enclosed is a diagram of the piston orientation on all Chrysler V-8 wedge engines. Note the inner two exhaust valve locations. I also took a very small nail file to the ridge on the piston valve reliefs. I radiused the sharp edge along the 'trough'. I removed very little material, basically rounding off the sharp edge thats it. I am still contemplating coating the pistons due to the piston speed of this long rod low deck beast. Having a 'Pro' do it would be approx. 300.00 doing it myself would be 30.00 1/10 the cost. The only thing that concerns me is the ability of the coating to 'stay' in place for perhaps thousands of miles. I dont want to have the coating 'migrate' to the oil galleys and eventually the bearings, ring lands ect..Any advice on the piston coatings would be greatly appreciated.(This is an endurance engine not a max H.P. Drag engine) Thanks, Eddie

#2

#3

#4

that all seems to be coming along nicely eddie what do the manufacturers of these coating claim , i would expect that after an engine has got some miles on it there would be carbon build up in the non wearing areas & in places where the forces of friction are at work the coating would not last ,thats just my guess but ive never used any of these coatings i would think that unless they were absorbed into the pores of the metal there use would have a very limited life
cheers ian

Eddie, from what I've seen, the coatings are MoS2- or PTFE-based, which is also the case for many oil additives. There are also ceramic and metal-based coatings, but obviously not DIY material (and probably not even available for short series or unit work).
And those are not dry-lubricant films, but rather hardening processes to limit scuffing.

I would not worry about lubricant coatings peeling off and plugging any oil galleys, as the skirt coating thickness is typically in the 10 to 20 µm range.

What would bother me in spray-base application (the only DIY method I would say) is how to bake the coatings without using the kitchen oven (your better half might be pissed if she finds out why the turkey smells like over-cooked bearing grease).
If you have a spare oven that can heat to 400°F, you can do it at home:

http://www.sandstromproducts.com/pdfs/e720.pdf

The info on this site : http://www.jepistons.com/pistoncoatings.asp suggests that the hard coating type (TS) needs to be taken into account for piston diameter. Could there be problems if your uncoated pistons are already a tight fit into the cylinder bores?

I always smooth piston tops. Rather than chamfer an edge slightly I give all the features a smooth rounded edge. Then a polish which blends the edges even better.

I don't know if it has any effect. It is just the way I have always done it. Someone must have told me to do it that way at some point in time.

Ian, Dave, Fabian, Thanks guys so much for all the info! I have access to an oven for industrial applications that can reach temps of approx. 600 degrees F. The DIY coatings I was interested in were the Powerhouse Coatings produced by Tech Line products. Ceramic based Dry Film applications that can be 'polished out'. Fabian I have approx. .006-.007 Piston to cyl. wall clearance. The recommended clearance is .006 for the 2618 KB slugs so I think I'm OK there, but when asked about how much this adds to the diametrical dimensions the manufacturer claims what you stated Fabian. The coatings leaves a micro amount of thickness not to be concerned with,(.0002-.0005), and it seeps into the pores, much like the Calico coatings on the main bearings and wont migrate or flake off. Of course the sandstrom products like the J&E site explains the various differences between the different types of coatings available. The KB site explains that a coated piston cannot be measured? Since I am going to utilize Alcohol,(E-85), I think I am going to coat them. I was particularly interested in Mahles Grafal coating on their Pistons, but when I contacted Mahle USA they informed me they could only coat my pistons after they 'made' a die for my pistons. I would think this to be very cost prohibitive just for 8 pistons! Thanks for helping me make up my mind. Fabian the sandstrom and J&E site were very informative!

dave-r wrote:I always smooth piston tops. Rather than chamfer an edge slightly I give all the features a smooth rounded edge. Then a polish which blends the edges even better.

I don't know if it has any effect. It is just the way I have always done it. Someone must have told me to do it that way at some point in time.

I'll probably be pushing the limits of cylinder pressure/fuel octane. Good advice! Thanks again Dave

Well I called Calico and asked their tech person,(alovely sounding woman, she's probably a hog), and she 'talked' me into sending the Pistons off to her. So off to Calico they went. I am getting the CT-2 skirt coating which is actually 'impregnated' into the alloy, something that cant be done at home she said. This coating actually self -scarifices itself into the alloy and becomes a part of it. It's impossible to remove it once applied. I wouldnt have saved that much money doing it myself by the time I added up all the expense. In the meantime I have acquired a salvaged Ford 4.6 Liter V-8 EDIS Ignition system. I acquired the 36 toothed reluctor trigger wheel, variable inductive sensor, wiring pigtail/harness, spark plug wires because they take a required fitting on the coil packs, EDIS-8 Computer, 2 coil packs with 4 coils apiece. All for the price of a 1/2 tank of gas! Fabian is gonna love this stuff! Oh it's 'spark output can exceed 65,000Volts and can be 'programmed' to emit multi-spark capabilties much like a capacitor ignition,(ala MSD, CRane, Jacobs ect)! Oh I forgot, there is NO distributor needed. I'll post pics in a few days when it arrives along with the pistons.(I have wood)