smoking oil leak from exhaust manifold. • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **rtse4406pack** » 14 Oct 2007 23:13

hi everyone,just joined this forum. i have a nasty smelly oil leak coming from the passenger exhaust manifold. burning oil leak is coming from the last exhaust hole on the passenger side, there is some oil seeping out of the side of the manifold just around the seal of the last manifold hole. can someone suggest what may be wrong. i am guessing one of my valves has dropped on that head. any opinions are welcome.

by **Eddie** » 15 Oct 2007 3:22

Are you sure it isnt the valve cover on that side leaking oil onto the exhaust manifold?

by **rtse4406pack** » 15 Oct 2007 3:47

yes,i am shure it is not the valve cover gasket as there is no smoke under the hood. the smoke is coming from the rear passenger exhaust tips, also when i run the car long enough it leaves a lot of smoky oily residue at the rear bumper cove area. a freind of mine thinks i blew out a ring on the piston or a valve stem leak. anyone know what i should do?

by **patrick** » 15 Oct 2007 4:35

How many mile's since the last rebuild? Sound's like it might be time for another. Unless you want to stick a band-aid on it. :wink:

by **dave-r** » 15 Oct 2007 8:54

If it is oil for sure then I would suspect a head gasket or worn valve guide with damaged seal first. Then I would be looking at the piston rings.

by **Eddie** » 15 Oct 2007 13:22

What do your sparkplugs look like? There is a an easy way to tell if it's the rings. Squirt a oz. of oil in to the suspect cylinder, get yourself a leakdown tester, the auto part stores rent them for free around here. If it's the rings the cylinder will show a higher pressure after you squirt the oil into it and crank it. One important question, does it smoke on start up and clear off as the engine warms up?

by **rtse4406pack** » 15 Oct 2007 22:09

hey guys thanks for all your tips. i took the valve cover off today to have a look at whats going on. turned the car on and found that one rocker does not go up and down,push rod is straight maybe lifter is gone or cam lobe? it is the second rocker from the end at the firewall side. smoke only comes from the last exhaust hole on the exhaust manifold. also my motor was recently rebuilt as that is what the prevoius owner informed me today as i just got this car last week. still can not figure why the blue smoke and it does not clear up as i drive it just gets worse. it is not a gasket leak. also some oil actually seeps out of the exhaust manifold on the top of its gasket. hopefully these clues can help you understand more about my problem. looking forward to participating on this forum. other than my motor problem the car is a beauty.

by **Eddie** » 15 Oct 2007 22:20

rtse4406pack wrote:hey guys thanks for all your tips. i took the valve cover off today to have a look at whats going on. turned the car on and found that one rocker does not go up and down,push rod is straight maybe lifter is gone or cam lobe? it is the second rocker from the end at the firewall side. smoke only comes from the last exhaust hole on the exhaust manifold. also my motor was recently rebuilt as that is what the prevoius owner informed me today as i just got this car last week. still can not figure why the blue smoke and it does not clear up as i drive it just gets worse. it is not a gasket leak. also some oil actually seeps out of the exhaust manifold on the top of its gasket. hopefully these clues can help you understand more about my problem. looking forward to participating on this forum. other than my motor problem the car is a beauty.

It could possibly be a wiped lobe. Your observation of the rocker arms lack of movement confirms this. I would drain the oil and expect some metallic slivers or dirty clumpy oil. I would also cut open the filter for a see. If it's a wiped lobe the oil pick up will also be clogged. Bad scene man. Can you observe the pushrod? Is there any up/down movement from it? If not, then it's possibly the cam lobe. :frown:

by **dave-r** » 16 Oct 2007 8:10

Pull the intake off and have a look. Check for a crack in the head next to the exhaust port too. I still don't understand where the oil is coming from.

by **Eddie** » 16 Oct 2007 12:51

The oil part has me stumped as well. Dave is right. The intake should be pulled,(MoPar Big blocks are the easiest, no coolant or dizzy), then observe the lifter pushrod as you crank it. No movement up/down from the pushrod is a wiped lobe. I dont understand his "oil" problem. He states it's coming out the exhaust and leaking onto the passenger side exhaust manifold?

by **dave-r** » 16 Oct 2007 13:16

I think the end of the head would have to have a crack right through it to do that. Not something I have heard happening before but I can't think of anything else.

by **Eddie** » 16 Oct 2007 13:30

A possible wiped lobe and cracked head? I cant think of any other reason for the "lack of rocker arm movement" and the oil seeping onto the exhaust manifold and blowing through exhaust system itself. The rocker arm has me concerned the most.(unless it stood the valve up because of the debris, and it got whacked by the piston cracking the head in the process) This is usually a very bad omen/sign. :frown:

The intake has got to go!(for an inspection)

by **rtse4406pack** » 16 Oct 2007 16:52

hi guys,i decided to take the intake off and work my way to the heads etc... hopefully the problem is on the top part of the motor. i will also take the cam out after inspecting the heads/push rods/lifters etc.... oh well have all winter to see what is going on. i will update you guys about the problem as i go along. will start on the work tommorrow.

by **Eddie** » 16 Oct 2007 18:49

Hope it goes well man. Keep us informed. :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 16 Oct 2007 19:38

Take some photos of what you can see and show us.

by **rtse4406pack** » 16 Oct 2007 23:03

dave-r wrote:Take some photos of what you can see and show us.

hi dave,that sounds like a great idea,i will take photos so maybe we can work things out together. hopefully a little help from my challenger freinds will go a long way. cheers guys!!

by **rtse4406pack** » 17 Oct 2007 23:20

rtse4406pack wrote:
dave-r wrote:Take some photos of what you can see and show us.
hi dave,that sounds like a great idea,i will take photos so maybe we can work things out together. hopefully a little help from my challenger freinds will go a long way. cheers guys!!

hi guys-i have found the problem (i think) pulled the lifter out and the lifter was worn bad on an angle at the bottom of the lifter, also the cam lobe is rounded. checked the valve seat from the same rocker and it is actually ok as it moves up and down like the rest of them do when applying a lot of pressure along valve spring. drained the oil and took off the oil filter and no filings was found. well i now have to take the cam out. guys you think i should take the heads off too? also where are the antifreeze holes on this motor,i was told there is no antifreeze in the intake,is that true. is there antifreeze in the heads-if so i will drain out all my antifreeze. attached is some photos so you can better understand what i am talking about. you guys have been great in helping me. now lets get a little bit more help from my freinds.

by **dave-r** » 18 Oct 2007 8:49

There is no water in big block intakes. It will have to come off when you change the cam anyway.

To drain the anti-freeze (the water pump will have to come off and the radiator out) there is a drain cock on the passenger side of the block near the fuel pump. Another cock is on the bottom of the radiator.
Or you can just remove the bottom hose.

You WILL need to drain and flush the oil and change the filter.

Do a compression test. If compression is OK you could leave the heads on.

Bad luck old chap.

by **Eddie** » 18 Oct 2007 13:24

Dave is right on. Sorry about that Danny. The cam is wiped, it appears from the wear pattern on the lifter side that the lifter didnt spin in it's bore during start up break in. This first few minutes are extremely important. If the lifter doesnt spin in it's bore during this crucial period, what you are experiencing is the result. I would re-place the cam.lifters. Check the pushrods for flatness. Yeah, a compression test or better yet a leak down test using a dual gauge tester will give you an indication of the integrity of the cylinder's seal. I would pull the rocker shaft and check the valve action of that cylinder. Does the exhaust valve push down easy or stiff, it may have whacked the valve head. If it's stiff and not 'smooth' I would also pull the head and check the valve seats. I think the 'oil' may be unburned fuel.

Re-check that valve Danny, if it's smooth and un-interrupted and the cylinder holds good pressure then disregard the head pulling part.

by **dave-r** » 18 Oct 2007 13:39

airfuelEddie wrote:I think the 'oil' may be unburned fuel. Re-check that valve Danny, if it's smooth and un-interrupted and the cylinder holds good pressure then disregard the head pulling part.

I agree. The oil on your exhaust manifold looks as if it is coming from the valve cover gasket.
Your exhaust smoke may clear up when you have fixed the valve but you need to check something has not caused damage to the valve or piston.

Personally. I would pull that head off and take a look.

by **rtse4406pack** » 18 Oct 2007 18:25

hi guys,just removed the cam and good news- what i thought was a completly round cam lobe was just a slightly worn cam lobe. it seems there where a run of bad lifters.other than the one i swoed you another 2 lifters where starting to chip away at the top of the lifter where the pin is held in place. those 2 would of eventually gone too. more good news -i checked the stifness of the valve springs and they are all equal in strength and consistency. new cam/lifters/gaskets and timing chain will be installed. any suggestions on what brand cam and lifters to use,i will be looking for stock set up or just a touch above stock. thanks again guys for your opinions as it has been about 15 years since i did work on a motor but the 440 was fairly easy to work on. more updates later.

by **Eddie** » 18 Oct 2007 19:57

Excellent Danny, I like Comp Cams products but Hughes Engines has good ones too. More importantly, the proper breakin is a must! The problem stems from the lack of high pressure additives available in todays eco friendly lubricants. I would use a high quality oil that has these additives. I use Amsoil and Amsoil filters, also the lifters are not made by Johnson anymore from my research into this. It seems the lifters have become "softer"? but you are not alone in this problem. Many pro-engine builders will not build an engine without roller lifters anymore due to this problem,( hydraulic roller lifters are avilable for the B/RB engine they are not cheap), another rather expensive but permanent solution to this scuffing problem is Shubeck Lifters in both hyd. and solid but they are very expensive 800.00+ a set I believe. They are indestructible and can be used over and over again with different cams even in different engines.

by **rtse4406pack** » 22 Oct 2007 23:45

airfuelEddie wrote:Excellent Danny, I like Comp Cams products but Hughes Engines has good ones too. More importantly, the proper breakin is a must! The problem stems from the lack of high pressure additives available in todays eco friendly lubricants. I would use a high quality oil that has these additives. I use Amsoil and Amsoil filters, also the lifters are not made by Johnson anymore from my research into this. It seems the lifters have become "softer"? but you are not alone in this problem. Many pro-engine builders will not build an engine without roller lifters anymore due to this problem,( hydraulic roller lifters are avilable for the B/RB engine they are not cheap), another rather expensive but permanent solution to this scuffing problem is Shubeck Lifters in both hyd. and solid but they are very expensive 800.00+ a set I believe. They are indestructible and can be used over and over again with different cams even in different engines.

hi guys,what do you think of this choice of cam and lifters from comp cam. Camshaft Specification Table
Part Number 21-306-4
Engine 1959-1980 Chrysler
383ci-440ci
Single bolt,
8cyl.
Grind Number CRB 270H-10
Description

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.47 0.47
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 270 270

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 29 61
Exhaust 69 21

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 106 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 224 224
Lobe Lift 0.313 0.313
Lobe Separation 110 http://www.compperformancegroupstores.c ... gory_Code=

by **Eddie** » 23 Oct 2007 4:06

Good choice. I wouldnt get too radical with a factory exhaust and stock carbs. :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 23 Oct 2007 10:02

airfuelEddie wrote: I like Comp Cams products but Hughes Engines has good ones too.

I think Comp Cams makes the cams for Hughes these days.

by **Eddie** » 23 Oct 2007 13:23

Ive heard that too Dave. Both excellent choices. I had Comp make mine.

by **rtse4406pack** » 26 Oct 2007 0:55

UPDATE-

more bad news. found a cracked valve spring. took off both heads as i will not take a chance as the other springs are probably tired out. pistons and piston walls are fine though and motor still holds stock compression. oh well at least the top end will be fresh. i will probably start it up the week after next week as i am attending the las vegas sema show come this wednesday.

by **Eddie** » 26 Oct 2007 9:20

Sorry to hear about the valve springs. I would just get a new set of Hemi Valve springs and throw em in with a new set of seals as well. I would see about a new Comp Cams K-Kit,(Cam,lifters,valve springs,timing chain,pushrods) It sounds like the parts are simply wore out but the block is OK. Thats great! New fresh parts and you should be back in sixpack heaven! :thumbsup:

Let us know when you get back from S.E.M.A., BTW, any chance of pics from that event. Any new stuff coming out? Any top secret projects ect... :biggrin:

by **rtse4406pack** » 14 Nov 2007 2:44

finally!!!!! got the car started tonight sounds very healthy. broke it in for 10-15 minutes at 2000 rpm. no leaks,smoke or bad noises of any kind. tommorrow i will do another 10-15 minute break in at 2000 rpm then set the timing. next day a nice drive to a highway for cruising. cost me about $1400 in parts including the heads being rebuilt. labour would of been more than $1400 anyways but i did it myself. my friend john who rebuilt the heads was here tonight giving me that final touch i needed on valve lash adjustments and start up. car did take awhile to get gas but we primed it up and away she started!!! put the following new parts-cam,lifters,springs(comp cams), timing chain and gears (cloyes), gasket kit (mopar-felpro),pushrods and rocker arm screw/nut set (mopar), moly lube, shell rotella t 15-40 diesel oil and new oil filter (fram). the heads got shaved just a touch along the bottom for a nice clean seal and new bronze valve seals (more expensive but better) with matching comp cam springs to match the cam and lifters.

looking forward to putting some miles on her before she hibernates for the winter. :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 14 Nov 2007 14:43

Sounds great Danny! I am glad to hear she wasnt damaged and you caught it before anything serious happened. I'm sure you meant bronze valve guides, and yes they are better. They are less sensitive to lubrication issues and wont seize as easily as cast iron guides. I would drain the oil before you put it up for your long winters. Good Job! :mrgreen: