The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Is there anyone... (of course there is) ...knowing the bolt patterns of engine/ trans, at 360 small blocks? I had some ideas of a 360 block and stroker kits and.... so on... i have found out that the 360 have big block pattern to transmission, and want to know if this is for all 360 engines or just that one i have found?
Just a question of good to know thing for me!

They usually come with a 727 trans. But you can never say anything is for sure in this game.

Yepp..

but do you know if any 360/727 had the same boltpattern as my 340/727? or must i have another 727 also, if i have a 360 block?

I think I understand your question now.

All the LA blocks (318, 340, 360) have the same trans bolt pattern.

The 727 transmissions have a different bellhousing to mate to either the LA or the B/RB blocks. So any 727 that was fitted to a LA block will only fit LA blocks. Any 727 that was fitted to a B/RB block will not mate up unless you find a LA bellhousing to match the bolt pattern.

Ahaa.. So there were LA versions of 360 as well... Okay!

The 360 is an LA engine.

Along with the 273, 318 and 340.

"LA" stands for "Light A-Block" because the original A-blocks from the 50s and early 60s were cast much heavier.

B-Blocks are the common 383 and 400. Plus the short lived 1950s 350 and 361.

RB stands for "Raised B-block" because they have a taller deck height/longer stroke than the B-blocks.
These are the 413, 426 Wedge, 426 Hemi, and 440.

There was also a little known 383 version of the RB in 1959-60 only.

Coool! i did'nt knew that! Then they should have the same pattern.
Is the later 360:s LA blocks as well? I mean those mounted in Vans for an example.

Why would they be any different?

This man have a 360, but he told me that there is another pattern to the transmission then on 340.
Now with your info, i thought his engine might be either from another type of car, or maybe he dont know better...
Thanks alot Dave..

LA engines, Magnum 318 5.2 Liter and the Magnum 360 5.9 Liter as well as the new Gen. III 5.7 Liter Hemi ALL have the same bellhousing pattern. The magnum and Hemi bells have a "cutout" for the speed sensor however.

Ok... i thought it would be odd if there was an difference, since they are smallblocks and similar to each other...
Tell me about magnum "360" ? in some part catalogs i found 360 LA and Magnum... I thought there were only 383 and 440 Magnums... (?)

Jimi boy, In 1992 Chrysler came out with the 5.2 Magnum 318 engine, then in 93 they came out with the 5.9 Magnum 360 engine. The difference lay in the heads. The magnums use a pair of stud mounted rocker arms with pushrod oiling. This eliminated the single rocker shafts per head as the LA and B/RB engines had and block to head oiling. This improved the performance of these respective engines somewhat and along with multi-point injection where a decent improvement. They also utilized Hydraulic Roller cams and followers reducing friction somewhat and improving reliability. Hope this helps! Not to confuse you but you can take a LA shortblock and convert it to Magnum heads and vice versa!

Also the Magnum V-8's have a shorter cam snout which cannot utilize a fuel pump pushrod.(The factory cam is too short). And the intake manifold fasteners are straight up and down,(no angle as per LA heads). The valve covers also use 10 bolts per side as opposed to 5,(LA) for better gasket sealing. Other than all this , they are the same engine,(bore spacing, rods, cranks, ect..)

The Hemi is a whole different beast in itself and makes almost 100 more H.P. in factory form and is cheaper and stronger to boot. It also gets better fuel economy than the 5.9 360 it replaced! All good things. However, a bombed 340,(with MoPar Big Port Commados), will still eat all their arses!!

when you are in to heads.... do you dare to recommend me which heads i should choose on a performance engine for street use? Edelbrock have some aluminium heads, are there any difference really besides the weight? seems like valve sizes and cc chamber are the same as my standard??

now you were quick with all posts.. did'nt see all that!
Sounds like you are bit of a fan when it comes to 340?
what about Big Port Commados? (my swedish head dont seems to grip that)

JimiBoy, I am no expert but I stayed in a Holiday Inn! seriously, The Edelbrocks, Dave Hughes Heavy Duty 360 magnum Heads, MoPar Performance Big Port Aluminum Commadoes, all are very good choices for street and strip. My choice for a "killer" street engine Small Block would be a 360 Block LA or Magnum block doesnt matter. 4.030 Bore Honed with Torque plates, mains checked, then get a 4" Cast crank form eagle or M.P. performance, ARP main studs, Hughes girdle if you are going to rev it past 6500 RPM, Eagle H-beams for high revs or re-conned stock 360 rods and Keith Black pistons Speed Pro or Hastings rings 1/16 size,(O.E.M.), or buy a new short block for 1299.00 (USA prices). Heads: Big Port Commado,(good valve job, combustion chambers relieved around the intake side especially, no porting as they dont need it!), Hughes 290/.580 cam,Edelbrock Air-Gap Holley 770 Street Avenger. Easy 500 H.P. 450+ Torque from 408 cubes and the torque curve is nice and flat no need for 4.10 rear gears. The cam you can live with on the street without "loading up" cause the engine is much bigger than the small block you started with! If I had the money,(soon), I want to get a shortblock and build my other stroker which I want to build very similar to the one above.

Yeah, the 340 is a terrific engine! Big bore short stroke high rpm screamer! Strong block, rods, valvetrain, very reliable and responded eagerly to mods! The heads flowed well with very good velocity! The Big Port Commadoes will flow 310CFM with very little work, mostly valve job and intake reliefs. These babies will flow as well as the Race only W-2's but with smaller port sections,(port velocity is everything Jimiboy), "lazy ports" cause you ordered huge cross section heads like Indy's 360-1's on a 340 C.I.D. engine wont get out of it's on way until the RPM's climb. Plus the larger the heads,(port size), the larger the cam should be to take advantage of it all,(air flow intake tract), without getting too technical, the smaller port with high velocity will make more power over a broader RPM range than a huge port that flows "slow").

I totally agree

I rather have a screaming 340/360 then a heavy duty big block! Everybody else has that more cubicinches, more power theory... But i think its fun going fast with lots of rpms (and many are the guys that been mistaken that the 340 surely is left behind in the traffic lights, well!
I was looking at eagles stroker kits at http://www.campbellenterprises.com/site_index.htm
I need lots of extra dollars for the shipping and all psycho taxes in sweden! Thought it would be nice saving my matching number 340 for the future, and a 360 is easier to find and much cheaper... i tested this combo in Dyno 2000: 360 block, bore:4.000 (408ci) with a roller 0.552/0.564 Lift, 10,7 compression.. 660cfm carb and of course loud pipes...2.02/ 1.6 valvesize, i am not sure about the rest of data for the heads do... Its fun playing with this dyno2000... it was about 515 hp at 6500rpm But do you think a set of standard heads can be fixed to do the job with strong rockers and so on? Where can i find those short blocks you meantion?

Gonna need more carb than a 660 Holley on that beast with that roller cam! The Shortblocks are available from MoPar Performance catalog or any Chrysler Parts DealerShip, or www.maciniracing.com . The stock O.E.M. heads can be made very good but you'll need new springs, valves, guides, machining for flatness and porting work to develop the same flow and durability as a new set of Eddies or MoPar Performance heads. That is why those heads are so popular! You can easily spend 2000.00 on a set of older factory heads and still not flow as well as a set of new aluminim alloy heads out of the box! The O.E.M. heads do have some collectibility such as the factory 340 heads like the X head or 915's they both where used on the 340 I believe. 1 cfm flow=2 H.P. all else being equal and the cam is matched

Ok, i will check those stroker blocks..

(3671587 is casting number of my heads/ standard 1973. I wonder what these are named as?)

587 are decent heads. Actually, jimiboy, I would keep those heads of yours as well as the 340 block and put them away unless you want to do a Concours or factory type of resto. Any of the new heads on the market will give you the "need for speed" fix you desire for a lot less money. Another thing to think about, you put 1500.00 in your '587' heads and get them to flow as good,(unlikely), as a new set of Edelbrock RPM aluminum alloy small block heads, then you bolt them on your stroker or regular engine, they get to hot and crack! See what I mean? it just doesnt make econonmic sense to 'do it' to the old parts. The small block master is Ryan@ www.shadydellspeedshop.com

you can say g'bye to jimiboy. Once he goes there, we'll never see the 'lad' again!!

That Shady Dells, they are for real racers surely... Now i am more confused
You are in to some aluminium heads with some more port job then factory? Sounds like big money talking here! will they make a difference without portjob?

I should have asked for the flow instead.. This is my big question! When it seems to be no difference (or need?) to bigger valves or Combustion Chamber Volume (I have not found any data of cc for my -73 heads on the internet) How much of difference is the flow between standard and aluminium heads? As i need flow data for the choose of cam, how will i found out the flow of a set cylinder heads really?? If i look at summit for a set of edelbrock heads... where do i find the flow, cfm data? What brings the flow, is that something i can calculate in someway? Feel a bit stupid here(?)

Shadydell has the flow of J heads which flow almost the same as your factory 340 heads with the 1.88 valves, just keep scrolling down and the flow is at the bottom of the heads description. As far as which heads flow more between aluminum and cast iron there isnt any difference. Iron heads will tolerate more abuse, alum. are lighter and easier to port/machine/repair. You take your pick. Whatever you do, just focus on high velocity, most of the port should flow at .550 lift cause this is the cam you will probably use on the street/strip a true dual purpose head I think is what you are after. As I stated earlier, Big port Commado! Closed chambers are better for everything!

" most of the port should flow at .550 lift " That's what i meant... You wrote that Shady Dells got those data, and now i have seen that they do have this info Thanks.....

I will probably get back with more questions later on...

You can try buying cast iron heads from Indy, as they were switching to Al only a lot of these were for sale. These are very descent heads, with good flow i think the valves you can fit in 360 headas are intake 2,02, exhaust 1,60. I am personally using modified 360 heads with porting done, valves 2,02 and 11/32 stem, bronze valve guides, and special springs that i use with hughes engines cam, and they do the job. These heads cost me 120 EUR + the job that was extremly cheap (porting, valve guides and fitting big valves, doing valve seats cost 250 EUR), i have also used adjustable rocker arms from Hughes Engines with ratio 1,6 : 1. It works nice and the engine like high rpm, it pull like hell till 6500 rpms. With this combo i use , performer RPM intake and speed demon 750 carb, it is not the best choice for iddle but pays back at high rpms. all of that was putted on 318 block with Keith black dome pistons, compression is 11:1. I just tell you that its really good (Was good enough to break 904 trans After i install new trans i will check performace of the car

That 318 of yours must be kicking asses! (unusual with a sharp 318 like that?) sounds nice to get away with that low cost. I see that you got a red -72 or later one Chally, i must see if i find your car ammong the member car pics (My car was rally red with black top from factory)

I have checked these INDY cast iron heads for 360 they cost 780 EUR for a complete set including big valves, the porting however must be done.

Wojpi, do you mean the AeroHead cast iron factory heads? Why bother with those when you can get the aluminum Edelbrocks for cheaper and they flow 25% more at .550 or less lift out of the box. Just curious man. Or do you mean the INDY 360-1 or 360-2 aluminum alloy race heads for the Chrysler small block? Those heads have pretty big ports and would be marginal for street use unless the engine is at least 400+ cubic inches. The RPM range of those heads is 3500-7500+ they are "revised W-2 Heads. However,as far as H.P. production those heads are capable of easily supporting 650+ H.P.!!