Decided, the engine is,,,

by **plum-crazy** » 14 Mar 2007 7:28

Hey guys.

The challenger is still without heart.
I think chally finally needs a hemi, or maybe I need to se the big heads? :roll:

I discarted MP serial built engines.
The professionally built engines are my point of wiew for this choice.

a) Indy heads
b) John Arruzza

Each one have his goodies but they are handling different prices too, anyway I do not choose megablock, probably the final displacement will be 472-477 engine.

I read about it a lot of time meanwhile I saved money to do it.

by **plum-crazy** » 14 Mar 2007 7:29

What's up?
My past posts was deleted? :cry:

by **plum-crazy** » 14 Mar 2007 7:31

I'm searching old posts and I'm #870

by **dave-r** » 14 Mar 2007 9:17

Hello!

Glad to see you back.

You must have been a very long time away and been cought out by the massive pruning of the member list last October.

http://challenger.mpoli.fi/forum/viewto ... 6453#26453

I had to get rid of some 900 people that had registered but have never been back to use the message board or have been gone for 9 months or more.

However the tool for doing so is not very good and it deleted many members I didn't want to loose. So i will not be doing that again.

Also I am moving this message thread to the Engine section as it will be more at home there.

by **Eddie** » 14 Mar 2007 16:10

Good luck with INDY,(you'll need it), oh and ask for Kenny "I love to help MoPar People" Lazzari, he is such a nice and friendly fellow, always glad to help out. :s001:

Aruzza is supposed to be good, no sarcasm here, and I had Hensley Enterprises build my 440SIXPACK engine and am very happy with it and the power durability it has. If you are a professional racer with fistfuls of cash and lucrative sponsors then INDY might accept you! To Hades with them my friend! :thumbsup:

If however, you have your hearts desire with an INDY engine it's best to deal with a distributor of their fine products.

by **plum-crazy** » 19 Mar 2007 15:36

I was looking for Henseley products few months ago, but I like the Indy products due to they build their own products.
Anyway, I'm talking to John arruzza several times and I think is a good professonal and he give me all the explanations about my dudes.

He uses a high performance and hi quality products to build his engines, like Stage V engineering heads ( I never hear anything from them before) or callies cranks, dual intakes, or cam motion camshafts.

What doyou think about it?

by **transman** » 19 Mar 2007 16:38

A friend of mine had Aruzza build him a HEMI :thumbsup:

, and he was more than pleased with it. Was it cheap? NO. Is it what he wanted?
YES! He said that if he was to ever require another engine for any other projects he would do in the future, Aruzza would be his choice again, either for the HEMI, or for a big block wedge. His HEMI by the way makes marvellous power and torque, but at idle, you'd never know it. His car is a 67 GTX (original 440 car), 4 speed, and will see more than its' share of street use.

transman

by **Eddie** » 19 Mar 2007 18:35

Hensley has a terrible website, Matt Hensley is the engine builder and can be reached through their e-mail.They took over for Mr. Herb McCandless since Herb's retirement, Matt was an engine builder at Eagle Racing Engines out of Knoxville Tenn, (mostly G.M.), after the shop was reorganized in 1998, opened their own MoPar Only Machine Shop. They have shipped MoPar Engines worldwide and are known for their Honesty and Quality. John Aruzza is a "legend" with the 426 Hemi engine, and I would also have him build one as well.INDY has the highest Quality products it's just that they don't have the most pleasant customer relations dept. Have you thought about doing it yourself?

by **plum-crazy** » 20 Mar 2007 21:08

No. I'm sure I don't do it myself again.
I think internal balanced and well tuned engines is something that we can't do in Spain with enough guarantee.
The way Arruzza is tunning his engines is personal, he has his secrets.

If my budget allows it I try to get an arruzza engine.

by **Eddie** » 20 Mar 2007 22:20

Good for you Plum Crazy! Can't go wrong there. I wish I could afford his 472 Torque to the extreme Hemi! I have his flyer and he uses only the finest engine parts available. It should last you a very long time and exceed your wildest dome top, cross flow, fantasies! :s016:

by **plum-crazy** » 24 Mar 2007 6:46

Arruzza is the most expensive, but as you say, he uses the finest parts, but is a good balanced engine and I think he take care about all details to get a lot of power and minimal mainteinment.

On the other hand he talk to me several interesting secrets but not all, :mrgreen:

by **Eddie** » 24 Mar 2007 9:27

plum-crazy wrote:Arruzza is the most expensive, but as you say, he uses the finest parts, but is a good balanced engine and I think he take care about all details to get a lot of power and minimal mainteinment.

On the other hand he talk to me several interesting secrets but not all,

Like what? I'm a sucker for engine tech. what where you told?

by **plum-crazy** » 28 Mar 2007 22:06

Do you know about stage V enginering heads?
And about cam motion?

The second one only could be used when you know a lot of engine performance and building.

by **Eddie** » 28 Mar 2007 22:57

Yeah Stage X engineering by Eric Hansen? His heads flow among the best as do INDY RP and yes Cam Motion is very good. I thought you were referring to the new carbon fiber composite woven matrix pushrods and the new mechanical VVT big bore cam thats being developed. :thumbsup:

by **plum-crazy** » 30 Mar 2007 12:40

No, I will use traditional materials.
I do not like mechanical cam on the hemi, I think good hydraulic cam-lifter set is enough for 6000 rpm red line.

by **dave-r** » 30 Mar 2007 13:35

More average HP and a flatter torque curve with a solid lifter cam though. :wink:

by **Eddie** » 30 Mar 2007 13:42

And dont use too stiff of valve springs, the street springs should be ok with the hyd. cam as thats what the factory did, when they detuned it in 69 or 70, cant remember when they went to hyd. I personally wouldnt use hyd. in a Hemi but thats just me. Hemis are a large port engine and by their very nature yen for the revs man! :s004:

by **plum-crazy** » 16 Apr 2007 7:25

Finally Ichoosed Arruzza's engine. I talk to him several times and I like the specs of his engine.
The final displacement is 4.31 bore x 4.15 stroke. 484ci.
Stage V aluminium heads, dual inline intake with 2 x 650 holleys, hydraulic custom cam, 9.5" converter.

We try to get 600+ hp and 600 lbs torque with red line at 6000rpm, maybe the 1/4 mile will arrive at mid 11's with a 3.50 rearend and drag radial tires.

What do you think about it?

by **dave-r** » 16 Apr 2007 10:25

That sounds good to me!

by **Eddie** » 16 Apr 2007 15:11

It should give you a puckered bunghole!Do you have any pics? :mrgreen:

Congrats I am envious! 426/472 HEMI :V8:

by **dave-r** » 16 Apr 2007 15:51

With the right gears it would run low 11s at over 120mph I calculate.

by **472 R/T SE** » 16 Apr 2007 17:56

I have heard LOTS of good stuff coming from Tim @ ForHemisOnly. I got my Stage 5 intake, carbs and baseplate from them. When I pull mine out he will get it to build.

Sounds like you're on the right track tho. :thumbsup:

http://www.forhemisonly.com/

by **plum-crazy** » 16 Apr 2007 22:49

airfuelEddie wrote:It should give you a puckered bunghole!Do you have any pics? Congrats I am envious! 426/472 HEMI

No pics at the moment.
Is really hard to find Arruzza's info on the net.

by **Eddie** » 16 Apr 2007 23:49

Can't wait to see it my friend, that is going to be one seriously powered BULLET! :shock:

by **plum-crazy** » 19 Apr 2007 20:39

The order is done.
Only need to decide between two combinations :
1- 4.31 bore x 4.15 stroke
2- 4.31 bore x 4.50 stroke

The second one uses longer rods (7.100 vs. 6.960) and shorter and lighter pistons, this allows the engine arrives quicker to the red line in spite of higher stroke.

The final displacements are 484 or 525", is hard to decide, is not a money problem, the difference its about 3 percent more only, it's a concept problem.

Opinions?
Help please.

Thanks.

by **Eddie** » 19 Apr 2007 20:46

plum-crazy wrote:The order is done.
Only need to decide between two combinations :
1- 4.31 bore x 4.15 stroke
2- 4.31 bore x 4.50 stroke

The second one uses longer rods (7.100 vs. 6.960) and shorter and lighter pistons, this allows the engine arrives quicker to the red line in spite of higher stroke.

The final displacements are 484 or 525", is hard to decide, is not a money problem, the difference its about 3 percent more only, it's a concept problem.

Opinions?
Help please.

Thanks.

Is the 4.50 stroke 528 combo, internal oiling? If so I would go with that combo. It's a bigger engine and therefore will make more power and especially more torque. Some don't like the oil line "outside" the engine but both my trucks have it and to me it's no big deal! Bigger is better! :s003:

by **plum-crazy** » 19 Apr 2007 21:02

No, airfuelEddie.

Is not that combo, he don't like the 4.5 bore. He says the more bore you have the more ring area need to seal.

He says the 528 MP combo makes white smoke at short mileage.

by **Eddie** » 19 Apr 2007 22:52

Sorry, plumcrazy, I meant 4.50 stroke not 4.50 bore. The engine block has a factory raised area that mounts an external oil pump and has an internal pickup flange. Sometimes this "flange" interferes with crankshaft pins when the stroke exceeds 4.15 or so. So to compensate the pickup is incorporated into the pan and feeds directly into the pump via an external oil feed hose.

by **72 Challenger (Hans)** » 20 Apr 2007 6:25

I would go for the longer stroke. With that 4.5" arm you will have quit a bit more torque. I even wish I went for a 4.5" crank, it would give me a 572ci then as I already have the 4.5"bore. As for a big bore, this is the 3th year I have it and had not a single problem.

Well, lot of problems, but none were Hemi related. Most of the troubles were tranny related. And now still ignition related.

Anyway, I would go (if money isn't the object) for a 4.5" x 4.5" Hemi making it a 572ci. Otherwise, bigger is still better. With my 4.5" x 4.15" = 528ci combo I've went a 10.64@128 having ignition troubles during the whole run so there's more to come. Oh, this was just on pumpgas, with a flat tappet cam and single 4bbl...so you made the right choice going HEMI.

by **dave-r** » 20 Apr 2007 9:49

I am one of these old fashioned guys that likes the bore to be bigger than the stroke.

Better high rpm power, faster throttle response, slower piston speed, less HP losses, etc.

Look at the way they build F1 and other racing engines. Tiny stroke. Big bore. Something like a 19,000rpm redline, 900hp from a normally asperated 3.0L engine?

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