The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Exactly what I was thinking dave, I'm planning on a set for my 500 stroker setup.

Friday we were building the engine.
Is not possible to buy transparent valve covers?

Wow, less than two weeks since your first post and the edelbrock heads are already on! UPS shipping, right? I am impressed to say the least. Congratulations for not beeing as slow and lazy as...........myself !

Sometimes is fast from Summit and they use DHL, It's about 5 days to deliver from USA.

Finally chally's on the road again.
No pinging, better idle (for me) but poor vacuum at idle, is better when rises to 1500 rpm.
Tomorrow I will try to make some km to check it's all right.
I will send photos.
Idle advance 10º, but total advance with vacuum is about 48º, is too high but the only way to lower it is disconnect vacuum hose.
Thanks for your help.

We went to make 50 km with chally yesterday, and it was wonderful, no pinging more, oh yes! We tryed in each condition, and I like the new sound (not vary much than the other but I hear it like more full of response) you know what I mean?
We break the engine first during 25 minutes.
With 238º-246º we lost vacuum on idle.

plum-crazy wrote: Idle advance 10º, but total advance with vacuum is about 48º, is too high but the only way to lower it is disconnect vacuum hose.
Thanks for your help.

You are wrong!

I have an article on here about setting the timing. http://challenger.mpoli.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?t=828

There are ways to adjust the advance in the distributor. You will find it will idle better with 12 or 14 degrees initial (idle) advance and you want MAX 34 or 35 degrees all in by 3000rpm.
THEN you connect the vacuum advance. You want about 15 degrees extra with vacuum. Anything from 10 to 20 degrees should be fine.

You will find this tuning makes a big difference to how well the car drives.

Also measure the vacuum at idle. Adjust your idle mixture until you get max vacuum. If the idle mixture screws do not seem to work I can tell you how to fix that.

Make sure the power enrichment springs (the two springs under the little covers on the top of the carb) are the correct rating for the amount of vacuum you have. The springs are colour coded.

Tomorrow I will try to fix idle advance up to 12º and total without vacuum up to 35º.
On Friday we go to our meeting, I will send you pictures.
Thanks.

Talking to some racers in the US some of them feel that (depending on the size of the cam) 14-18 degrees initial is needed.
I have always found 12-14 is fine.

Mopar Performance suggest this method;

Tools Required : Timing light 3/32" allen wrench, vacuum
gauge with long hose, vacuum source (e .g., "Mighty Vac")
and a friend or helper.

1 . Set the basic timing for total mechanical spark advance.
a Disconnect and plug the vacuum advance hose.
b. Connect timing light to the battery and number 1
spark plug wire.
c. Loosen the distributor hold down clamp so the
distributor housing may be rotated by hand.
d. Start the engine and allow it to warm up fully.
e. Set the idle speed to 2600 rpm.
f Set the timing at 32° BTDC.
g. Tighten the distributor hold down bolt.
h. Reduce the idle to the original setting, unplug and
reconnect the vacuum advance line.

2 . Set the vacuum advance for total ignition advance.
a After the basic timing has been set for total
mechanical spark advance, disconnect the vacuum
advance hose at the carburetor . Connect a vacuum
gauge to the carburetor's vacuum advance port and
route the gauge and hose into the passenger
compartment . Place the gauge in a location that an
assistant can read the gauge while the vehicle is being
operated.
b. With the vehicle in operation, note the maximum
amount of vacuum generated by the engine while in
gear and being held at a steady speed between 2000
and 4000 rpm.
c. Stop the vehicle, turn off the engine and connect a
timing light to the battery and number 1 spark plug
wire.
d. Start the engine and raise the idle speed to 2600 rpm.
Connect a vacuum source to the distributor's vacuum
canister and draw vacuum up to the reading noted in
step b.
e. Note the total advance shown on the harmonic
balancer.
f. Total advance, mechanical plus vacuum, should be
52°. Disconnect the vacuum source and insert the
allen wrench into the internal vacuum canister
adjusting screw . Turn the allen screw (clockwise to
decrease, counterclockwise to increase) to obtain 52°.
Reconnect the vacuum source and recheck the
timing . Continue repeating this procedure until 52° is
reached.
g . Remove the timing light and vacuum source.
Reconnect the vacuum advance hose . Reset the idle
speed too your original setting .

Yesterday we checked it. Idle 12º and 3000 rpm, 23º more. Total advance 35º and connecting vacuum rise to 50º.
Brakes : Poor
We installed a vacuum reserve but is not enough, we do not have time to do it better, today we leave to the meeting.
If you want I will send you pictures.
Thanks for all.

You will probably only have about 5-10 inches of vacuum at idle so the brakes will be very poor. Most people running cams as big as that switch to manual brakes and start working their legs out in the gym.

Weh, that's what I call fast wrenching!!

dave-r wrote:You will probably only have about 5-10 inches of vacuum at idle so the brakes will be very poor. Most people running cams as big as that switch to manual brakes and start working their legs out in the gym.

In the gym?? I work both my legs out in the car!
On the serious side, it's not that hard. I removed the booster and re-used everything else, only installed an adjustable brake rod. It's only hard with emergancy stops...THEn you have to reallu push on it! And the clutch works fine too, not that hard to engage. In fact, not much harder then my VW daily... Allright enough, gotta go...too much to do before the first race starting next friday...

Is that Hemi actually powering the car now Hans or just sitting there looking pretty?

Yeah Dave, it's running!! Only since a week or 2, but since then I'm busy getting all the bugs out of it. Like in ... missing 3th gear, making the kill switch actually work, running hot on the highway, roll bar, bigger fuel system, oil leak, etc.) After the race next week I'll post some pics and results. Then I should some more free time left. Talk ya later!

Looking forward to that. Good luck!

Hi.
Weekend finished. Car runs well, only can go up to 5000 rpm, I need to drive it more miles to rum to maximum power. Now i'm thinking to use engine and transmission oil cooler.
I try to get a new scoop for my hood, now there is a hole.
Electric vacuum pump is needed to brake.
But car sounds like a thunder. I love this sound.
Regards.

I'm preparing the second stage, on september we will have a quarter mile to run but is not a permanent site, only for that day.
I'm checking the possibility of install a Perma Cool dual radiator, but I'm not sure that is better with sandwich on the filter or with relocation kit
The brakes are horrible, I don't know about the mesurement, you told me on inches but i don't have the way to check it. On july 2th I will go to one mechanic who have a good machine to check it.
I think is good a electrical vacuum pump.

plum-crazy wrote:I'm checking the possibility of install a Perma Cool dual radiator, but I'm not sure that is better with sandwich on the filter or with relocation kit

Sandwich. I found the relocation kit slowed the time it took to get oil pressure up when starting the engine.

The brakes are horrible, I don't know about the mesurement, you told me on inches but i don't have the way to check it. On july 2th I will go to one mechanic who have a good machine to check it.
I think is good a electrical vacuum pump.

You just need a vacuum gauge connected to manifold vacuum. I can convert to some other measurement if that helps?

Ok, I thought in sandwich too.
When I will have the measurement i will let you know but is a really that I don't have enough brakes and is not the right way to drive it, I need more vacuum.

With a hot (big) cam you often do not have any choice but to fit manual brakes.

Do you know the best way to install an antiroll hurst system?
I want to switch on and let the rear line without pressure and only brake the front one, then I switch off and go back to the line.
After that run normally.

I am not sure how the Hurst version works. On my own system I fitted a solenoid in the front brake line. The solenoid I wired to a button on top of the Hurst shifter.

I have to press the brake pedal first. Then press the button to engage the solenoid. Then i can take my foot off the brake and as long as I hold the button down the front brakes stay on.

You can also plumb the solenoid into the rear brake line. Doing it this way you switch on the solenoid first and then apply the brake with your left foot. This stops the rear brakes coming on. You then hold the brake with your left foot while doing the burnout. You have to remember to switch the solenoid off before racing though.

Some systems do not use a solenoid. Instead they use a manual valve which has to be plumbed into the interior within easy reach of the driver.

All the systems work well. It is a matter of personal choice which you use.

Hi guys.
Do you think is rare that engine run well until half throttle, but if I try to push full throttle at 3000, 4000, 5000 rpm, engine goes down, then I cut a little and then engine reevs up again. I only can push the pedal slowly, when I try to make kick down is not possible, engine goes down.
This is due poor mixture? Maybe is needed an electrical fuel pump to resolve it? Or maybe changing jets?
What is the way to check it?
Dave, do you have electrical fuel pump in your chally?
Actually carburetor is a 750 edelbrock and fuel pump is a high volume carter mechanical.

I have instructions on tuning on this board. It sounds to me that is all it needs. A rich/lean gauge will show you exactly what is going on.

Yes I will do it.
Anyway I have a friend who lend me a 750 Holley double pumper to try to get quicker response in full throttle and we will install this week a hurst anti roll brake and a new double circuit radiator to cool engine and transmission oil.

I will order an engine oil and tranny oil gauge to check it and A/F ratio gauge as you said. I want to fit this gauges on a triple pillar pod. Do you know what kind of triple pillar is needed for challenger? Maybe the standard one?

Thanks.Alfred.

I checked your engine specs vs. my engine specs and I find differences but I think that these differences are bigger on the quarter mile than real horse power. How do you think about it?

Dave
Alfred

440 bored to .030 with 10:1 forged pistons
440 bored to .030 with 10.34 : 1 forged pistons

Valve lift (w/1.6:1 ratio) 0.571"/0.576"
Duration (@ 0.050” tappet lift) 238/244 degrees.
Duration (advertised) 287/291 degrees.

Valve lift (w / 1.5:1 ratio roller rockers) 0.485” / 0.495”
Duration (@ 0.050”) 238/246 degrees.

906 Iron ported heads
Edelbrock performer aluminium heads

Six pack holley’s with edelbrock intake and carter pump
Now holley 750 double pumper with edelbrock intake and carter pump

Headman headers 1 7/8 and 3” full exhaust with warlock
Headman headers 1 7/8 and 3” collectors to 2,5 Exhaust with flowmaster 40 series (cut-outs before mufflers)

10” converter
11” converter

4.30 gears
3.23 gears


Any other items like hoosier, are easy to install but I read that you rise your performance with solid lifters?

Your engine will be about 30 to 70hp down on mine as it was. There is more to making HP than just the specs you quote.

The solid lifter cam will give me more low rpm torque and HP. Peak hp will increase only slightly but be at a more useable rpm.

Your gears and torque converter will hold you back on the strip. But depending on the weight of the car it should run high 12s at worst and low 12s at best I would have thought.