The Dodge Challenger Message Board

June of 2003 I took delivery of Mopar's 402/435 crate motor and installed it September of 03. It was fairly smooth to start, but always had some vibration to it. At first, I thought it was just a aggressive cam, but soon found that the vibration was getting worse as time went on.

I tried a new stall converter (externally balanced motor) rebalanced the drive shaft, checked the pinion angle and balanced the tires again, just to be sure.

Pulled the motor, figuring in for a penny, in for a pound, so let’s have some fun. Took it to a local engine guru, who said it was the crank that was not balanced, and had caused some damage. I needed a new crank, connecting rods, bearings and some machine work to fix it up right.

Now I am a little concerned as I have put maybe 3500 miles on the motor, paid $5300 us plus shipping, and have another $5000 in goodies and add on's (not including labor cost) so I called the Atlanta Connection and spoke to the owner, Laurence, who sold me the motor.

He gave me a contact @ Cummings OEM Remanufacturing, but let me know that the motor had a 90 day warrantee on it, starting when it was shipped. (It was out of warrantee before I installed it) Time to grab my ankles...

Cummings said there was an issue with this specific motor. Seems that they were using Mopar Performance connecting rods, and modifying the block, when Chrysler said that was to expensive, so the switched to Eagle connecting rods, that did not require block modifications. (Motor has 4 inch stroke which accounts for the 402 ci from a 360 magnum block)

Cummings found that the eagle connecting rods weighed less than the Mopar connecting rods, and during the switch over, a "few motors" may have not accounted for the weight difference by rebalancing the crank to account for the difference. Looks like I win the prize of being one of the few, huh? It might be collectable, but only as a boat anchor or table base...

The good news is that Cummings will pay to ship it back Canada, repair and return it to me at no charge. The bad news is that I have to take it out, and watch my car sit motor less for 3 months.

The end result is that one year and $15,000 us later I should have the same quality motor that I could have had for $12,000 from Ray Barton....

Crap

I have read and heard similar stories about crate motors (in general), although this is the first I have heard of problems with this particular motor. An engine builder suggested to me, a long time ago and I have abided by it ever since, to never assume that an engine is "ready to install" just because it is purchased and shipped assembled. He suggested to always disassemble, magnaflux, rebalance, blueprint, then reassemble. Even engine components, such as cranks, rods, etc., when purchased individually should always be checked and rechecked before assembling. Sounds like a hard lesson, sorry it happened to you.

kcmk wrote:I have read and heard similar stories about crate motors (in general), although this is the first I have heard of problems with this particular motor. An engine builder suggested to me, a long time ago and I have abided by it ever since, to never assume that an engine is "ready to install" just because it is purchased and shipped assembled. He suggested to always disassemble, magnaflux, rebalance, blueprint, then reassemble. Even engine components, such as cranks, rods, etc., when purchased individually should always be checked and rechecked before assembling. Sounds like a hard lesson, sorry it happened to you.

Leassons learned: If you want to be sure that something is properly done, you have to do it yourself......!?

I think that a 90 days warranty is far to short when it comes to problems like this. The engine was built in the wrong way from the start. That isn´t something you should suffer for, insuranceguy !

Another Board I used to belong to had a moderator, whose tag line was FMOS.

Fix My Own S**t. Now I know. The good news is when the motor comes back, I will have it balanced with the flex plate and stall converter on it, to make it as smooth as possible.

I found out the hard way not to get in a hurry. If you can't do it yourself, wait until you can afford to do it right. Otherwise you end up living with a pea soup green faded paint job for an extra year or two....

Todd

Todd,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal with the crate motor.

At least your car will be down during the winter months.

Great that Cummings ponyed up and claimed responibility.

It's going to be another looooooooooong winter!

Just watched my motor (back in the crate) leave for Markham, Ontario (where Cummins OER is located) 2635 miles each way (4242km), plus repair time...

Anybody want to guess a time line for return? Winner gets absolutely nothing, but it could help pass the time till next spring?

Todd

For about half of what you paid, I can buy a fully re-built and stroked 360 ci small block, complete with extractors (headers to suit) and installed for another $500 ready to go. Why the hell are they re-building 360's in Markham Ontario? Surely there are enough motor engineering companies in the USA that would have the skills and parts availability to do the job just as well if not better? Do you guys really have to go to Cummins to buy a crate 360 or what?
The job I've done on my little 318 has set me back about A$4000 which is around US$3200 or less. 30 thou overbore, Holley 600 vac secondaries, everything new except for pulleys, fan, dissy, starter, alternator and a/c compressor. My humble A-904 is about to be re-built with a stage 2 shift kit, new pump, torque converter and all parts that wear all replaced for about A$1100, plus a couple of hours labour to pull out and put in - then the 3.23:1 gears for the 8.75 diff and she's just about there. All up - around A$6000 or US$4500 for what I hope will provide me with years of reliable service and all parts are readily available too.

Now.....did I tell you all that I've just bought a 1987 Dodge Ram 150 long bed pick-up with a small block that I plan to do my next improvements on....

Todd - while this has been an expensive lesson to learn, surely there is someone more local than on the other side of N America who can repair the motor for you and Cummins will wear the costs (like they must have agents all over the continent)? While honorable that they will repair the motor, it still begs the question "do they have anything called quality control in their factory or what"?
Cheers and good luck mate...Roger

Hi Roger,

Since it was actually a Mopar Brand Crate Motor, the manufacturer for this motor is Cummins (if the bloody thing was built in the US, it would have cost 35% more, and still had quality issues) they were the only way to fix it for "free". Since it was a design flaw, Cummins decided to fix it.

If I did not want to stay all "Mopar” I probably would have bought a Lexus v-8 and kept the hood closed

Todd

And the you say you would be ricin' the Challenger...

Good news!

Cummins tore the motor down, took one look at it, and shipped me a brand new one. Expected arrival is 12/6. Mopar did stand behind their motor! Now let's hope this one works a little better...

Todd

You should read about this guys problems with the 528 crate hemi from mopar. They actually paid for him to give it to Ray Barton to rebuild.

Noticed i didnt post the link, will do it when i get home.

Here it is: http://rsorak.dyndns.org/engine.htm

Motor is back and as of yesterday, in the car. Got to burn some paint off today, so we will see how things go. I had the motor shipped from the manufacturer to a trusted machine shop direct, which then disassembled, polished, balanced and re torqued everything. I am hoping this will save any issues in the future.

If you choose to buy a crate motor, please go into the kitchen, open up the knife drawer and slam it on your fingers 3 times, hard. If you have not been convinced at this point not to buy a crate motor, choose a more delicate part of your anatomy, and repeat.

Todd

Fingers crossed for you this time Todd.

Latest update on the great crate motor fiasco.


The trusted machine shop is no longer trusted. They hemmed and hawed and finally ended up quoting me a huge price for uncertain service.

After a little more research, I decided to have the motor shipped to Dick Landy Industries http://www.dicklandy.com/. They will tear the motor down, balance the crank internally (rather than the external balance a Magnum motor takes) upgrade anything that looks poor, re assemble then dyno tune it with my accessories, to make it as perfect as possible.

Chally is going to be a hanger queen for a while, but then I should be done.

By the time I am done with this POS, I think the Barrett auction route may have been more cost effective...

Well at least it has gone to someone that knows what they are doing.

It really sucks that this has happened to you. It must be draining all the fun (yes it's supposed to be fun!) out of your Challenger ownership. It is no joke when it all goes wrong like this.

The good side is that I am learning a lot and meeting some very talented people in the restoration and performance business. Second time around will go much smoother...