[Joel]

I remember when Flowmasters where fairly new around the PacificNorthwest. My brother bought a pair for his '68 Fury III with a 452 $8,000 crate engine as well as my friend Chris, who at the time was next-door neighbor, who bought a pair for his '67 Dart that he swaped the old slant six for a fresh, mostly stock, 318. I never heard any other car around these parts having them. However, a few years later, the present, everyone who is anybody has Flowmasters, all of which are the newly designed and sounding Flowmasters that do not sound like the old design. I am sick of every ••••• and •••• that drives by with Flowmaster on them, they ran a good thing into the ground, do you know what I mean, Dave? I want something a little more original. What do you think of these other brands: Dynomax, Borla, Hooker, Afterburner Mufflers, Raptor Turbo Muffler, Terminator Mufflers and Warlock Racing Mufflers.

I greatly value your ideas and knowledge and always look forward to what you have to say, except the often cross remarks.

I remember you saying earlier that I should read some books, if I remember right. Do you know of any that you would highly recommend that I should read?

[Hugh/mopar man uk]

hey joel,

i dont know who makes them but i've always loved the sound of 'cherry bomb' mufflers, though the word muffler is used in a loose sense !, they sound awesome, but i'm not sure about their legality where you are !, they are basically a 2 1/4" straight thru muffler, the best thing is that after about 6 months of hard driving the guts all get knackerd and its the closest thing to open exhaust sound you'll get !,

no doubt dave will have something to say about them but they're my preference,

btw, my 440 dart exhaust uses 3" 'turbo mufflers', again i'm unsure who makes them

[frank]

hmmmm well it sounds like you want daves opinion but since someone else has beaten me to it..lol I used Dynomax turbo mufflers w/a crossover piece (not h pipe)these flow better than flowmaster and they cost half as much the only problem is they are huge so they dont fit by the gas tank and it is a custom install.oh yes i almost forgot i used aluminized steel pipes and went with 2 1/2" instead of stock exhaust just in case i want to do some real racing.(2 1/2" is the minimum) they sound great by the way and dont look out of place i ordered them thru summit, i liked this set-up cause of the research i did.i checked out all the mufflers out there. the price for the performance was great!

[dave-r]

I don't have a lot of experience with different muffler types.

Remember I am British and the Challenger is my first American car.

I used slightly longer versions of the 'cherry bomb' type muffler on my old Australian Charger and I liked them but it was only a 2" exhaust on a 318.

My Challenger had a 2" system with a pair of 'no-name' mufflers fitted when I got it and I 'made do' until I rebuilt the engine.

Now I have a 3" system and with pipes that big it is going to sound loud no matter what I do. I have two 'Warlock' mufflers with the removable plugs so I can run 'straight through' at the track. By themselves (remember 3" pipes!) they are very loud. So I also fitted some UK built cherry bombs at the tail pipes. These were built to order for me which is a service this company will do for a small charge. Again these are 3" in/out. They help a bit but it is still a {very} loud car.
The only way to talk inside is to shout.

[Hans]

That's what every US car should sound like dave, hope mine does when I put the engine back in next weekend.

[hugh]

right on Hans, i'll only fit my 3" exhaust when i run the car on the street though,

[Joel]

Right now, my Challenger is using 2 1/2" Turbo II mufflers. Funny thing is, my car, I think but with my memory I could be wrong, has 2 1/4" exhuast. If my memory is correct, when I had my exhuast change from side-pipes with Magnum turbo mufflers, they are cherry bomb style but they don't fall apart!! They are more expensive then the well known cherry bombs. You can get cherry bombs at your local auto parts store and they are usually on display in a barrel and you pick from an asortment of different sizes. Magnum Turbo mufflers are usually have their own packaging. When I had my exhaust changed I had it done at a really nice custom exhaust shop, I cannot remember their name but I highly reccomend them, in Ferndale, Washington, which is about a 25 minute trip from where I live. For the trip from my house to the exhaust shop, I ran the old Magnum mufflers with turn outs. That the loudest exhaust on a small block that I have ever heard in my life; good thing there weren't any cops along the way that I took to get to the shop, or I would had a nice little ticket on my record. The shop mounted the Turbo II mufflers, which my brother only used just on his trip on the way to to the shop to have his exhaust change on his '68 that he drop a $8,000 440 crate engine into, so they were like new.

Has anyone heard a Borla mufflers? I want to use either Dynomax or Borlas, but it is not final though. I could change my mind and choose neither of the two.

Frank: Frank, did you buy and use the cross overs that Year One sells? I think that would be a much more performance oriented way to go, personally.

[tlister]

I like the sound of the dynomax with a 2-1/2" exhaust, pretty much the system Frank mentioned above. It is not so loud you can't talk inside, but it has a deep rumble when you are behind the pipes.

[frank]

joel: no i had the cross-over custom made out of aluminized steel cuz i used aluminized steel piping(my choice)and yes it is the best way since the h pipe to get the exhaust out and reduce backpressure AND equalize that backpressure from what i understand most racers are using crossovers,i have been reading this thread amazed that people are still using cherry bombs!! ... *laughing hard*...oh also if you go with dynomax they have 2 different types of turbos i used the superturbos i am trying to remember why.,i think it had something to do with performance ask when you call and they can tell you what the difference is

[SF]

I am running the Super Turbos on mind too. I like the sound and I hear that is sounds good outside too.

[Hugh]

laugh as hard as you like frank..

cherry bombs (aprx 3ft long, not the tiny ones) are as close to a straight thru pipe as you're ever going to get, especially once all the innards have been blown out by a stout mopar engine !,

and when you get pulled by the law you can quite honestly say "look occiffer, there are the street legal mufflers, its a big lound car from the factory, honest !"

nothing sounds as good, the rumble alone makes people take note and cower !.......cherry bombs rule !,

[frank]

lol hugh.... the problem with cherry bombs is you lose hp,not to mention hearing so sorry to say cherry bombs USED to rule Now they are 1970's tech in a 2001 world.

[dave-r]

Just to stick my oar in here!
Don't believe a lot of these 'independent' tests that show one brand or type performing better than another because they are anything but.

Both types can allow an engine to produce good power but it often depends on the size engine and pipework. The difference may matter on a race car but on most street/strip cars you would be pushed to find a difference in performance. In the real world they are very close but a lot depends on the construction of the 'bomb'.

The pipe running through the 'bomb' has holes in it to allow expanding gas pulses to diffuse out into glass fibre packed around it. This has the effect of producing a more even pressure out at the far end. So you end up with the sound being more of an average level than a normal pipe that would give you sharper (louder) pulses of pressure.

Now the biggest drawback to these 'bombs' is the way the perforated core is made. The old versions had holes that were punched into the sides of the pipe like a cheese grater. This type of surface is very bad for airflow and creates back pressure.

You can get 'bombs' these days that have a very smooth flush surface on the inside. These are much better but need to be longer or have thicker material around them to give the same noise reduction.

The 'flowmaster' and 'turbo' types still produce back pressure too but drop sound levels by 'wave cancellation'. This is the theory but in practice it is just another way of doing the same thing. The pressure is 'evened out' and you don't hear as much noise because it is the changes in pressure your ears detect.

Think of it as changing AC current into DC. You can hear AC but your ears can't detect DC because it is constant.

Now Hugh is working on the principle that after time carbon deposits build up in the 'bomb' type muffler which effectively block off the holes into the glass fibre - making it almost as good as a straight pipe. This is only true if the inside of the 'bomb' is smooth and you have to realise that it is going to be very loud.

Neither is as good as a straight pipe. And a straight pipe is only right if it is both the correct length and diameter(s) along it's length.

So my thinking is this:
If you want to reduce the noise level a lot but want to keep power levels up and you have the money - go for the 'Turbo/Flowmaster' type.

If you don't give a toss about the noise level as long as it is slightly lower than an open pipe and/or you want to do it cheap - use a 'Cherry bomb' type but make sure the inside is smooth.

[Jack T]

I remember something being said about mufflers a long time ago....... I favor the Flowmaster three-chambers myself.

[Joel]

OH, you mean a raised block, like a 383, gotch ya. Oy vey, Dave, things sure have gotten very entertaining, but at the same time very informing, eh? You really like those Warlocks of yours Dave?

[dave-r]

The warlocks are ok and easy to 'un-cap' which is the main reason why I got them.

[Tim Ellison (Tim)]

Hi Dave,

Happy New Year to you.

Thinking forward to the camswap I should be getting round to in the next few months, I'm guessing the extra power will result in extra noise. My current system is already borderline (Hooker headers, 2 1/2- inch pipes, cherry bombs), so an extra set of mufflers at the front of the system are probably in order if I ever want another MOT. Does it take you long to uncork your Warlocks? I'm also getting tired of trying to race with my eyes full of exhaust rust, so I could solve two problems at once here.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Takes about 2 minutes to un-cork. Needs a pair of pliers to get the wing nuts started off though.

[John P (Blue)]

Personally I hate the sound of Cherry bombs, too raspy at high revs, I like the big dynomax turbo mufflers, they give a nice deep rumble. When I was a boy, the Thrush straight thru' header mufflers were my favorite, I had a pair on my fourmula S Barracuda 4 speed, they were bolted direct to the headers and ended under the front seats, man that car was loud! I prefer something a little more subtle these days.

[Hans (72challenger)]

As soon my engine is back in his place it will get a 2,5" exhaust with 'old style' 2 chamber flowmasters. Before I still had some original chrysler mufflers fitted in the original exhaust and I can tell you these were loud! Now I removed them I can tell you why; I can look straight through them. The whole inside has rotten out of it during all those years. If anybody wants them... send me email.

[Jay Gilmore (Mickey_mouse]

Hi hans l use 2 chamber flowmasters on my little big block 383 with a cross over and these are mounted each side of tank, has a nice burble on tick over and sounds like a jag on steriods at full wack, according to flowmaster???. but using crossover on its own,you will feel the difference.See pics on my 71 R/T