[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Getting ready to purchase a '71 Challenger that is equipped with a 383. Will the crate motor Hemi drop in, or is the k member different? Anything else I need to know? Thanks.

[Jens (Jj)]

Hi Derrick,

look at this site: http://www.engine-swaps.com/

There you find all the information and the parts you need.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Thanks Jens. I appreciate it...

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Good site that. Their Tri-Y headers will work well on most mild street cars with good mid range torque and they allow for stock type exhaust systems (stock type collector in the right place). On a more powerful engine I think normal headers have a performance advantage.

Good quality stuff though.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Thanks Dave...I took a look at that site, and they have alot of useful info. Thanks again...Derrick

[Mark Thorley (Thor)]

If money is no object, go with the Shumacher headers. They fit my 440 perfectly. I only have to remove 1 spark plug to get them out.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

The car I am looking at buying is a 71 RT with the 383. It has the 4 speed, and originally a Plum Crazy car. The Schumacher looks like a very nice product. This is my first venture into the Mopar game since 1988. I have owned nothing but Ford Mustangs since (I had a '71 383 with the 727 before the Mustangs) and I got caught up in the Mustang craze, and finally found my way back! The car needs a total resto, but I plan on putting in the crate "base" Hemi with a 5 speed (gotta love overdrive) and making it a weekend/nice weather car for my wife and I. In the future, this car will be converted to fuel injection as well, and maybe a Vortech centrifugal blower. We'll see. There are a few other cars I am looking at (they are 1970 models), but I am partial to the 71 since my first car was the '71. As I get closer to the final purchase of my "dream" car, I will be logging on for help in the buildup, and any and all help is greatly appreciated. And as a side note, this car will not get cut up for you hardcore guys out there, so no worries there. Thanks guys, Derrick

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Before getting a crate Hemi check with Ray Barton for a price on a street engine. The crate engines are not put together well. Forget about the Vortech as well. Procharger is much better and more efficient. Ray can advise on all your needs in this respect including fuel injection.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Vortech has been great to me in the past on my Mustangs. I put my first Vortech unit on (a B-trim) back in 1993. Then the R-trim, and then the J trim Mondo. I am leaning towards the T or YS trim for the Hemi, but I will talk with Vortech (Rickey is a good guy over there) once I get the ball rolling. I know ATI (Procharger) makes a great unit, but the Vortech will be going on my car. Ray Barton, huh? Got a website, ad, phone #? I did not know about the crate engines not being put together well, gotta love websites/messsage boards. Thanks Dave.

[Bryan Eidins (Bryan)]

www.raybarton.com
phone=610-670-8591
fax=610-670-8592

from what i have heard and read ray is the main man when it comes to hemis.

i have also been privaliged to go out in a street car with a 528ci ray barton hemi in it and that thing went like there was no tommorrow.

[Alex (Alex)]

Ray Barton is THE man for Hemi engines, he can build you one that won't self destruct the first time you run it (!) for around the same amount of cash.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Well then, I will be looking up Ray Barton when it comes time for my purchase. Anyone have a lead on where I can get a hold of him, where is he located and such? Thanks, Derrick

[Alex (Alex)]

PA I think from memory

[Alex (Alex)]

Contact Us
The following is a list of contact numbers, addresses
and ordering information for Ray Barton Racing Engines




Call Us:
610-670-8591
Business hours are Monday - Friday 9:00am - 5:00pm Eastern Time.
Voice mail may be accessed 24 hour a day, 7 days a week.

Fax Us:
610-670-8592

E-Mail Us:
mailto:raybartonracing@aol.com
Customer service, product
inquiries or general information.


Mail Us:
Ray Barton Race Engines
343 Belle Alto Road
Wernersville, PA 19565

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Hey Bryan. Are you invisible or what?

[Bryan Eidins (Bryan)]

why do you say that dave?

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Because you gave Rays number and web address out then...oh never mind.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Hey Derrick.

Sure the Vortech is a good little unit. So is the Chrysler 318 engine. But the Chrysler 318 is not a 440 and the Vortech is not a Procharger. You have used the Vortech on your Mustangs right? The fastest 5.0L Mustangs are running 6.9s at 200mph with a Procharger. The Procharger is just a more efficient unit and that is why I said it would be better. However I understand you going with the system and people you feel you know well. I have never installed a Procharger so it might not be as straight forward. Although basically it is just plumbing I suppose.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Actually some 6.50's have been laid down now with the Procharger. But that is one HUGE unit on there. For what I am wanting to do, I do not need something that large. In fact, i really do not even need a blower, I just want to put one on for the fun factor and the fact it is soemthing you do not see around here in Houston (Rare to see a Hemi running the streets period, much less one with a blower on) INstall are pretty much the same, even though the Procharger has a self contained unit (it does not get oil from oil pressure from the motor, like the Vortech, the Procharger has it's own oil supply in the unit itself.) I have nothing against Procharger, and my door is not closed to them, but my first choice will be the Vortech. Thanks for the info on how to get a hold of Ray Barton.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Yeah. A guy I know has one of the big prochargers. It is HUGE! They do make various sizes though right down to a wee one.

To be honest. A Ray Barton hemi does not need anything more for the street. A guy that is a member of this board got Ray to build one for the street. Only it was the same price for a 528 as it was for a 426 so he went for the bigger one. The stipulation was that it had to be a turn key, low maintenance, daily driver. That is what he got. It puts out 650hp. Don't even ask about the torque because this thing would win a tractor pull. With street tyres it can get very exciting driving this thing and I think it is fair to say that given the chance to do it again he would fit the smaller 426 engine just to loose some of that power.

Texas man are ya? My Challenger came from Austin.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Houston, TX...Yes sir!!! I lived in Austin for awhile, as well as the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Yeah, just like I was saying, I really do not need the blower, just want to put one on eventually. My plan is this...buy the car, get all the bugs sorted out (brakes, suspension, floorboards,etc...)have the motor done and leave the carb on until I have the money for the fuel injection and blower... This is something that my wife and I will work on together. She never really got into my Mustangs and the drag racing I do. She wanted an older car (she likes the "bubbly" cars as she calls it, the 40-50's era) I brought out my photo album, and showed her some pics of my '71 Challenger that I had before she came around, and she liked it, so here we are. A friend of mine just picked up a 73, and so I had to get one for sure after that. So I am doing some home work, and searching for a car. Have a few leads on some, so we'll see. Hard to find these cars!!!!!!!

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

12.19 Dave? Watcha got under the hood good buddy? I have been as fast as 9.0's @ 150. This was a carbed 351 with alot of "gas" running a powerglide on some 10.5's.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

You can find the full spec of my car on the "Photos of your Challengers" section. It is basically ported stock iron heads and a hydraulic cam because it is a numbers matching "daily driver" in the summer. In fact I use it to go to work when the weather is nice.
But with a weight of almost 4000lbs it is a big car to get moving!

A couple of guys I know have cars that run 9s on laughing gas. They are going to move over to prochargers. I bet your Mustang was hanging the wheels up in the air a lot with that much nitrous off the line eh? That stuff sure adds some serious torque. Not my cup of tea though. I prefer to be naturally aspirated.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Here is a link to the current spec of my car Derrick.

http://www.challenger440.pwp.blueyonder. co.uk/cgi-bin/disc/show.cgi?tpc=5&post=6 144#POST6144

I have a few changes to make to the car sometime in the next few months.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Very nice indeed. I really love that 70 grille, but my first car being a '71, I am still partial to the '71. You could say I have had my share of "bumper draggers" in my day. Once I put in the powerglide with such a tame 1st gear, it settled the car down dramatically. I had been running a Doug Nash/Richmond 5 speed up until the powerglide. The 5 speed was real violent, broke alot of parts leaving at 7500 RPM on the "gas" side stepping the clutch (driveshaft's, bent 8.8 rear end housing's, tailshaft housing's, and 1 rear bumper cover) Yep, stood her on the rear bumper at a Fun Ford event in Houston back in '98. Tore the rear bumper cover. Put a C4 in her, and had her in unitl I broke it (high gear is weak in the C4), then finally put the 'glide in and never had a problem with that GM trans. Sold that car back in 2000, and built up my last car (black '89 Mustang hatchback) had some fun with her, and sold it back in Sept of last year. Now I need something that my wife can enjoy also. I made those phone calls, and does not look like those are going to work out on the cars I found. So I am still looking. Any idea's where to look? Thanks.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

I painted up the underside since those photos were taken. Looks messy under the car in those photos but it shows how much real driving it gets. I need to touch the paint up every year.

The car is part owned by a friend of mine called Linda Woodhead. She gave me the funds I needed to get the car near the way I (we?) wanted it. Without her it would have never got running as soon as it did. She has consistently driven it faster than me too. The bitch!

The exhibitionist that dwells within me (and fights eternally with the quiet shy side of my personality) has always wanted a car that would lift it's wheels up. Laughing gas is the quickest, easiest, way I know how but something makes me steer clear of that.

I guess I will have to build a "Little Red Wagon" one day to get it out of my system. Or stick a procharger on the Chally. But I can't afford to fix broken parts very often.

If I had someplace to keep a couple of cars indoors I might have kept the Challenger stock and built another car as a race car. I would never have been able to afford to even drive to the race meetings though let alone build two cars. I don't even have a roof over this one. It has to stand outside in the rain all the time.

Ah. Look at me. I am rambling because I had wine with dinner tonight.

I like the grille on the 1971 cars slightly more than the 1970. But I like the rear lights in 70 much more than 71 so that decided it for me. These cars are getting increasingly difficult to find at a good price or even for sale in a reasonable condition. They are such good looking things the owners tend to hang on to them when they have a good one. But keep looking. Best way to find one is to join a local Mopar club. That way you get to hear about cars coming up for sale well before they are advertised to the public at large.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Thanks Dave. Your car, outside in the rain? Get ya a garage my friend! Wow. How do you do it? I would be scared just of the theft part of it. Here in Houston we have a high theft rate for cars, as well as vandalism. My brother's 4 runner has been keyed once and egged twice, my last truck was broke into once at the movies, and someone punched a fender while it was at a friends house over night. I would have to drive my Challenger where it would not be out of my sight for more then a few momnets, and it will stay in my garage under lock and key! it's a shame we have to worry about that down here. I have noticed most of the people on this board are not from America, so I take it there is a pretty good following of the Challenger over there???

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Well, I am going to go look at a car in Louisiana on Saturday. '71. Original yellow with black interior and black vinyl top. The car currently has a 440 with the 727. New front suspension/brakes. No rust (we'll see come Saturday!!!) New interior. Needs paint and a hood. I 'll let ya'll know more when I get back. Hopefully it is what he says it is.

[Derrick Morris (Peepaw)]

Well darn it...He gave me the VIN to do some history on the car, and this lovely website let me know that he has the title to a '71 Dart/Demon! LM29H18292127 It saved me a trip. He said he is gonna apply for a lost title, but that will take a few weeks. Great website! Thanks.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Now that is what I like to hear. Someone doing their research first, using this site, and avoiding a disappointment. It is the reason I created this site in the first place.

Yes there are people from all around the world that read or use this message board. You will see a lot of Europeans because they are most likely to have some command of English I guess and Challengers were available in Europe from France and American Air Force bases were also a source for many cars over here. Plus the film Vanishing Point was a big cult hit over here after the American public ignored it. It was only after doing well in Europe (it was a British production anyway) that it was given another chance in the USA.

But the Americans on here still out-number us by a large majority as you would expect.