[Andy Burke (Slump)]

Are there any superchargers I could use for my '73 with a 318? Would it be worth the money? Has anyone seen a challenger with a supercharger?

[Hans (72challenger)]

Here's a pic of a blown 318



for sale here in Holland, 21500 euro...

[Hans (72challenger)]

Here's a pic of a blown 318 rated at 460hp



for sale here in Holland, 21500 euro...

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

Isn't it sad to see a Challenger like this.

If people must build a hot rod, why choose a Dodge Challenger? The last thing a Challenger needs is a bloody great blower sticking out through the hood. Atop a 318 too! Madness!

Cars like that are never worth the money and are always 'for sale'. Nobody wants them. Please hot rod something else.

If you want more power from your Chally, Why not put a 440 in it. 460hp should be no problem. Or maybe a 360/380hp crate motor, and keep the cars great looks.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

That car used to be on my old 'Challengers Around The World' web pages.

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

Yes, but what do you think of it Dave?

And how would you advise Andy to put a bit more power into his Challenger?

[Hans (72challenger)]

Well, I've seen the car and it does look very good, but I totally agree with you about one thing, why a 318... Then do it right and throw in a blown 440.

If it's Andy just about the power he better replace the 318 by a 440 like you said Jim, maybe even cheaper too (depends on where you live I think, for me it would be cheaper to choose for a 440 instead of a blower)

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

OK.
I will get off the fence. Or try to!

Well my advice to anybody after more power is to fit a bigger engine because it is by far the cheapest/easiest/most reliable way forward.

However the visual impact of a Roots type supercharger is quite something. I like to see them on street cars. There was a big fad for them in the late 1970s - 1980s which has faded away a lot now.

Again it is a good way to make more power but the drawback is the cost. At the end of the day a blown 318 will only produce as much power as a much cheaper 440 with a mild street/strip cam.

It would seem to most people set on building a supercharged engine to start with a big block. However you could end up with 600-800hp easy this way. Could you really use that amount of power on the street? Traction and power oversteer would be a problem. I would not want to drive it in the wet. The low end torque with these motors is huge.

However a supercharged small block would have the visual impact that you might crave and at the same time produce "only" 400-500hp.

I would not use a 318 though. They are just too small for a 6/71 blower. Remember that a 6/71 supercharger is designed for a 6 cylinder engine that displaces 71 cubic inches in each cylinder. That's 426 cubic inches we are talking about here.

You can underdrive them of course but the bigger the cylinder bore and stroke and the lower the static compression you have the better it will all work.

If you are serious, have a lot of experiance with building engines, and thousands of dollars burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. But use a 340 at the very least.

If you are a teenage day-dreamer then wake up, get a big block, and get real.

[Hans (72challenger)]

Getting off the fence Dave? Man, you falled off the fence. I think you made your point clear.

BTW, through this link you can have a closer look at the blower. http://www.chevythierry.com/newindex.html

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

My main point was: What a thing to do to a Dodge Challenger. Turn it into a lowest common denominator hot rod! Surely a Challenger deserves a better fate than this.

If we put it to a vote, I wonder how many people would prefer this car over a subtlely restofied stock appearing Challenger with a strong 440 under the hood?

[Henry (Henry)]

I see no problem with that Challenger.
Stunning colour & it's simple enough to take out the blown motor & put in a normally aspirated one if you were that way inclined.

You pays yer money & takes yer choice. The car may even have been a bog standard flat hood low option L6/904 open axle not worth a lot (comparatively) Challenger.

Also I would not say that rodding is the lowest common denominator. As much work goes into building rods as totally restoring a car if it's done right, sometimes more. If you have not been to a rod show in the last few years do it. You will be amazed at the attention to detail of some of the rods, most stuff is made from scratch by the owners & a lot of the cars are stunning!

Anyway Jim, what is your 'Cuda if not a hot rod?

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

Hi Henry. Well, I still reckon it's a shame to rod a Challenger to that extent. It's not just the motor is it. Usually the whole car gets rodded.- in the worst possible taste. As I said, cars like this are usually seen with 'for sale' written in the window. Who the hell wants to buy it? It's not even a subtle rod. There's a limited market for a car like that.

OK, as you can probably tell, I don't like rods. I do like like restofied cars though. I suppose it depends on the individual as to where the line is drawn between a rod and a personalised restofication.

I'm not sure I'd describe my Cuda as a rod. It is a factory hot rod I suppose. The car appears absolutely stock,- it just carries a slightly bigger stick, that's all.

[Robbert D 70`Chally (383m]

For a closer look on this Challenger:
http://home.planet.nl/~norel001/ Lots of pictures of building this car. (Don't pay too much attentions to mr Norels' English). The owner has sold the car last autumn.
I personally think it is up to the owner what to do with ones car, be it a daily driver, saturday night special, hot rod, dragracer, #1 resto-trailer queen. However Challenger-mad we are, and however distinctive Challengers are, they still are mass produced copys of an automobile designed to increase company profit. I would not encourrage somebody to IRREVERSIBLY change a rarity like an original V02 six pack or Hemi though. It is clear Jim draws the line a bit stricter.

[Andy Burke (Slump)]

Wow, didn't think I'd start such a controversy! My car is an un-original, 318, '73 that's been in a pretty bad wreck. If it was a hemi, or a six-pack, or even if it was all original I wouldn't even think about it. Don't get me wrong I LOVE my car, I was just asking for curiositys sake. As far as the cost, I haven't seen many places near here where I can buy low mileage big-blocks, and even a small block crate is around 3,500 american. If a super-charger is more than that, I was not aware. Anyways, I like that green one ^.

[Henry (Henry)]

The irreversible bits on the car are the tubs & hole in the hood from what I can see.

We don't know the history of the car so he may have done it a favour to make it into what it is.

I think it far worse that people let interesting old cars rust out so far that they cannot be brought back & won't even sell them to keen enthusiasts.

They were calling Mopar hot rods when they started to put powerful V8's into the cars in the mid to late 50's, precursors to the musclecar era.

[Henry (Henry)]

Andy
Jim & I know each other - I don't we're going to fall out over this

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Another way of looking at it is as artistic expression. I am very much into the 'art' of drag racing and hot rods and the factory performance stuff of 1964 - 1974. It is not just the cars but the social history of 1960s America. The effect drugs and music had on society as well as politics. All reflected in the clothes, cars, and advertising campaigns of the times! Do you think, for instance, we would have had something as simple as these wild high-impact colours on the cars without LSD, The Beatles, and a war that was unpopular with the youth of the time?

There is a lot of artistic creativity that has gone into even a bone stock car. Sometimes I like to see the cars as the original 'artists' envisaged. This is why I like to see vinyl tops on Challengers and would now prefer to not have the bee stripe which spoils the flow of the body lines.

But sometimes it is nice to see cars that are a contempory interpretation of all that has gone before. Something that reflects the times or fashions past and present.

A custom car tells you a lot about the builder too. Or rather it tells you what the builder wants you to think of him! I am all for custom cars and hot rods. Just as long as there are always original cars too to remind us where it all started from.

[Dave-R (Roppa440)]

Oh! And I am betting that supercharged 318 blows head gaskets unless the block has been 'O' ringed.

[John P (Blue)]

Dave, I totally agree with your comments! Don't you think the mopar Nats would be a little dull if all the cars there were totally as they came from the factory, without any modifications whatsoever to reflect the owners personality?

[Rob (Racer413)]

some cars should be saved(Hemis, six packs ,etc.).But what do you do with the non-number matching dime a dozen car? You modify it! My car stared out as a 340 non ralley car. No hood scoop , no fender scoops , no nothing. The orignal 340 was long gone and I have Barracuda seats. I've done a little at a time as I could afford to do it. I turned a rat into something I am proud of.Anytime you can save a old car from the junkyard its a good thing.

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

Blimey, I started something here.

Everyone to their own I suppose. I am certainly not opposed to modified cars. As Blue say’s, the Mopar Nat’s would not be the same without modified cars. I am prepared to bet that the majority of Mopars at the Nat’s have been modified in one way or another. Usually for performance purposes, (mine certainly is).

I go to the Mopar Nat’s in Columbus OH every year. I believe around 2,000 to 3,000 Mopars attend that event. The weekend before is the Street Rod Nationals. I understand that attracts over 12,000 rods! Rods are big business and can look great when they are subtle. My favourite modified Mopar must be Matt Delaney’s Viper motored ’68 Charger, (featured in Feb 2002 Mopar Action). This car is gorgeous. It is customised throughout, and makes a statement of subtle quality

I haven’t seen this Challenger, but I bet the whole car has been garishly customised throughout. I have to say from what I can see; in the worst possible taste. That’s my opinion. The 1970 Dodge Challenger is a great looking car. Major mod’s to the cars appearance rarely look nice. The only reason to supercharge a 318 must be for looks; surely not for performance.

This seems to me to be a good example of how to throw a lot of money at a car, and end up with something that nobody wants and is hard to sell.

As I said; everyone to their own. Maybe some of you like it. I don’t, it’s not even a nice rod, and I reckon most people of the Mopar persuasion will agree with me.

[Fabien Bernard (Fbernard)]

Just my 2 cents...

Why upgrade to a big-block (and replace all that must go with it, including the tranny and probably the complete yoke/driveshaft assembly) ?

Starting with a 318 (relatively easy to find, even here in Europe, and a dime a dozen in the US), the cheapest way is to rebuild the small block with a few performance parts. Every Mopar mag out there runs an article every 2 years explaining in detail how to get 350-400 or more HP from a 318 (last or before-last issue of Mopar Action or Mopar Muscle had it)!

Of course, it won't have the torque of a big-block (but it will take higher RPMs), but if I had a built 318 instead of the 440-6 pack, I'd even take the Challenger to go to work on summer!

[Jim Wilson (Jim)]

Hi Fabien. The problem with spending money on performance parts for a 318 is always going to be the cylinder heads. If the engine cant breathe then you've wasted your money on the other parts.

Why not find a 360 motor? These should be quite plentiful, and have the advantage of much better heads than the 318, as well as more cubes.

But check out the price of a new 360ci 380hp crate motor from Mopar Performance. I doubt you can achieve this kind of power out of a 318 for much less than the price of one of these bargains,- and they run regular unleaded gas too!

[Ron Morgan (Cartman)]

tubbed arches and holes in bonnets are reversible..if not extreme,my tubs are 4 1/2 inches wider,and i keep the back seat and inside original,bonnets are available,expensive,but available.
"each to their own" springs to mind.
no,i wouldnt modify an original,or rare,or numbers matching car,but then i wouldnt buy one ,or could afford one either!.shows would be very boring if all looked the same,its good to have a mix,new blood to the scene would be harder to find if we all had the same cars..and just for the record,my dream car would be a stock hemi challenger,or a cuda. yes,my car looks very seventies,and dated compared to pro streets of today,but i love it to death,and i thought thats the point.

[Andy Neal (Tweety)]

Well there is another option, buy a Dakota truck set up from Procharger, without the all fuel injection stuff, get a suitably modified carb and a simple air to air intercooler, make 10 pounds of boost and drive around all of them.
You get the air intake down by on of the front wheels, plus the whole thing would fit under the stock hood.
Why bother with stroker kits, big cams and all that old nonsense now's the time for a change.
I'll dig out a picture I have of a 360 install, it would look the asme on a 318 obviously.

[Andy Neal (Tweety)]

here a little one actually this is a Procharger D series I think which is overkill for the street, but all looks very tidy and neat doesn't it Even on a smogged up Modern Dakota you can expect over a 50% increase in both power and more importantly torque over the stock unit.
With a 318 I'd be tempted to put some better heads on there and obviously make sure the motor was in good order before you start, but there's no reason why you couldn't make 400HP, the carb will actually help you too, by keeping the intake temperature down some more over the Fuel injection set-up.
If anyone's interested this is a pet hobby of mine as you can probably tell and I have some great contacts

[Jeff Brown (Jeff)]

Why do some people go on about how much a car is worth???

Jeez have they got something to prove?

If its what you want then great!!

[Joel Bennett (Joel)]

I love the 318, not that I would put a skyscraper supercharger on one. I would prefer one of those under the hood out of sight Paxton type superchargers and put a intercooler on just for good measure. You tend to lose the all around well balance performance of Challenger when you drop a heavy big block into it. Wouldn't you have to move the engine mounts on the k member to acomidate the larger block anyway? Not everybody has or knows someone with a welder.

There is a point to which a car's looks crosses the line of tasteful and appealing and tacky and gawdy. The color bubblegum, looks absolutley hidious on Challenger. They could have at least painted the engine compartment semi gloss black to add some contrast.

Dave, could you explain the part about why a supercharged engine needs to be 'O' ringed, just out of ignorant curiousity.

[Luke (Luke)]

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/Te chInfo/SCTech.html
try this link it will an'swer some question's

[Joel Bennett (Joel)]

Thanks Luke. Dude, there's a huge amount of info to read.